Science vs God Debate

Recently there was a debate in New York City between two men arguing from science against the existence of God and two who apparently who were arguing for God’s existence.  This is described in an article on Foxnews.com, “Science vs. God:  does progress trump faith?”  It’s interesting who was in this debate.  Lawrence Krauss is a well-known physicist from Arizona State University and Michael Shermer is a founding publisher of Skeptic magazine.  Krauss and Shermer argue against God’s existence.  On the “God side” was Dinesh D’Souza and Ian Hutchinson.  D’Souza is well known for the 2016 documentary movie and Ian Hutchinson is a professior of nuclear engineering at MIT.  D’Souza and Hutchinson argued for the compatibility of science and religion.  But they don’t particulary argue for Christianity specifically.  Their opponents picked up on this.  I have some simpathy for atheists in some issues because the arguments of Christian apologists sometimes leave me unsatisfied.  I didn’t actually see the debate, so I’m only going by the article on Foxnews.  Don’t get me wrong, D’Souza made good points.  There is much good being done by modern Christian apologists mostly because they are having success at being heard.

But, sometimes they don’t give adequate answers because they don’t go far enough in arguing specifically for Christianity and specifically for the truth of the Bible.  There are things that require the Biblical answers in order to have a complete answer.  Also, it is not adequate to treat all religions as sort of “equal.”  The atheists at the debate pointed out that both the men representing the “God” side were Christians, so that meant they rejected all the religions in the world except one.  The atheists said they were asking them to reject one more.  Obviously Christians can’t oblige on this.  The God of the Bible is unlike the gods of all other religions.

Science cannot disprove God and science cannot really prove anything about origins.  Science can prove things that can be reproduced by experiment today, but the origin of things is not like that.  Science studies origins to determine the plausibility of the various possibilities.  Many Christian apologists fail in not rejecting evolution and the Big Bang.  Christians are called to stand on all the truth, not just part of it.  We won’t get respect for giving a mixed or contradictory message.  This is the actual impression of Christians that skeptics and nonchristians very often have.  The skeptics have the right to criticize the contradictory incoherent messages that Christian’s sometimes have about what they believe and why they believe it.

The Foxnews article says that D’Souza made the statement, “The last good argument against God came out in the 1850s.”  D’Souza was referring to Charles Darwin’s book, Origin of Species.  But Darwin was wrong.  There has never been a good argument against the existence of God.  Often arguments against God’s existence are based on misunderstandings of Biblical concepts, or they are based on evolution.  In the debate, physicist Lawrence Krauss said, “500 years of science have demonstrated that God, that vague notion, is not likely.”  Perhaps for some God is a “vague notion,” but it should not be like that for any Christian.  Christians should know better than to allow God to be a vague notion.  The God who created the universe has spoken to mankind and given us the answers we need in the Bible.  We have in the Bible much more than vague notions!  We may not always have all the information to fully answer some scientific or archeological questions regarding things in Bible.  But that doesn’t disprove the Bible.  In the light of all the wonderful confirmations of the Bible from science and archeology, we should be glad for the answers we have.

Krauss was apparently thinking of the evidence from modern science supporting evolution and the Big Bang.  Many of Darwin’s conclusions were unwarranted from the actual evidence.  In fact, he didn’t even make very good observations in ways because he didn’t keep adequate records.  Since Darwin, scientists have been locked into a wrong way of thinking.  Creationists have pointed out a number of things that not only refute evolution but also argue specifically for the truth of the Bible.  If the Bible is really true, there must be historical and scientific evidence that supports it.  That does not mean the evidence proves the Bible.  It doesn’t actually have to technically “prove” it to give people plenty of reason to believe it.  Also, Christianity is not just borne out by objective things like scientific evidence.  It explains life better than other religions.  This part is not as obvious and many Christian apologists don’t address this aspect enough.

The most interesting thing perhaps in the Foxnews article is the polling of the audience at the debate, at the end of the article.  Krauss and Shermer increased their votes about who won the debate from 37% (before the debate) to 50% (after the debate).  But D’Souza and Hutchinson only increased their votes from 34% to 38%.  This implies we need to do a better job at engaging people.  But, it probably also implies it takes more than a debate or a lecture to change someone’s mind.

Meaningless?

One of my favorite books in the Old Testament is Ecclesiastes, written by King Solomon of ancient Israel.  Solomon was well known in the ancient world for his wisdom and his riches.  But when his sons took over the kingdom after him, the kingdom of Israel split into two nations and went downhill dramatically.  Following are some of my thoughts on the book of Ecclesiastes.  If you haven’t read it, give it a read.  It is a book sometimes misunderstood I think.

How interesting that a book of the Bible should start out with the words, “Meaningless, meaningless, . . . everything is meaningless (Eccl. 1:2).”  The book of Ecclesiastes is a very thought-provoking book.  It is written I think from the perspective of Solomon, who, late in his life, was looking back with some regrets.  I suspect he was trying to write something to get through to people with a sort of secular mindset.  Late in the life of Solomon was a bad time in the history of Israel.  After Solomon’s sons grew up the kingdom split into Northern and Southern kingdoms under their leadership.  Solomon’s sons did not lead the nation to follow God.  I suspect Solomon looked with angst on what was happening to the nation and to the lives of his sons.  So, Solomon wrote something that you might think of as preevangelism, something intended to get the reader to think about the meaning of life.  Ecclesiastes makes you think about what you’re living for and what really makes life worth living.  It seems to me Solomon sort of switches perspectives sometimes throughout the book, sometimes writing from the “secular” or unbelieving mindset, and sometimes from the believing mindset.  Thus, Ecclesiastes makes its points in sometimes subtle ways.  If you don’t see what it is implying about God it can seem like a depressing read.  Especially the first two chapters.  But there is a good and encouraging message from Ecclesiastes.

Chapter 1 in verse 9 has the well known verse saying “there is nothing new under the sun.”  It mentions the various cycles of life in nature and the fact the man sort of goes through an endless repetitive routine in living his life.  When you view it on this level and consider only the material side of life, it can appear very empty and futile.  I think Ecclesiastes should be viewed similar to the Proverbs.  There are statements in Proverbs that should not be taken as absolutely true in all circumstances, but they are generally true in many cases.  It is making generalizations that are not intended as absolute statements that apply to all people everywhere all the time.  (Not everything in the Bible can be taken this way, but Proverbs and Ecclesiastes can be.)  Then there are other types of statements in Ecclesiastes that are expressions of feeling about how life seems, not meant to be taken as actual fact about the world.   Thus, in understanding Ecclesiastes we must understand it is making generalizations from a particular perspective.  Also, because it changes perspective, almost like changing worldviews, it looks at life in different ways in turn.

In the end of chapter 1 and on into chapter 2 Solomon comments about how even seeking wisdom and knowledge as well as seeking pleasure can seem meaningless.  In understanding the injustices of life and all the ways that life falls short of what it should be, there is sorrow.  This may be what Solomon implied in 1:18, “with much wisdom comes much sorrow.”  Yet seeking pleasure and having everything a man’s heart desires doesn’t satisfy either.  Chapter 2 verse 17 says Solomon hated life!  Solomon was fantastically rich and had owned everything and done everything a man could ask for.  In 2:2 Solomon says laughter is foolish and asks “what does pleasure accomplish?”  Even accomplishing great building projects did not satisfy.  The thing that is missing is a spiritual element that will be hinted at in later chapters of Ecclesiastes.  Solomon eventually comes to the conclusion that what makes life meaningful is to accept the good things given to us by God and live a life of obedience to Him (see Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).

In some sections of Ecclesiastes Solomon looks at things from a kind of cynical angle that is very centered on only this life, as if our Earthly existence is all there is.  And the way he describes life in those sections does not seem to acknowledge God but treats earthly life as if God doesn’t really have relevance.  But in other sections he acknowledges God and does treat life as if God is relevant and as if there is more to life than what we sense in this life.  Chapter 3 of Ecclesiastes is like this.  3:1 starts out “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven.”  Who’s perspective is this?  Does this make sense from a human perspective?  I don’t think so.  Continuing on to verse 10 it describes the burden God has laid on men.  Then in v 11 it says He (God) has “made everything beautiful in its time.”  This is suggesting God’s providential purpose in events that seem mystifying to us.  So, when it refers to “a time for everything“, or “a time for . . . ” particular things, I think the real point is that there is a purpose in all kinds of things in life.  Both the good and the bad things that people do are wrapped into God’s providential purpose for history.  God has “set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done . . . .(Eccl. 3:11)”  Sometimes people have taken this list of “a time for ” this and that to be a sort of implication that everything is ok, as if there is no right and wrong.  But verses 2-8 do not deny right and wrong.  Man has a burden of responsibility to do what’s right even though all types of things will happen around us which God allows.  We have responsibiltiy, but God is still sovereign.  This chapter is I think Solomon presenting the wonder of God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility in comparison and contrast.  Verses 15 and 17 also both mention accountability to God as the judge of men.  So Solomon says the best you can do in this life is to enjoy the work God has given you and live life acknowledging Him.  Why does God want men (3:18-19) to realize that they are like the animals, that they have the same material fate as the animals?  Verse 21 sounds like a statement that an agnostic would make.  (I was once an agnostic.)  It’s like saying “who knows what happens after you die?”  I think this is a way of saying God wants people to see beyond our material life and realize this life does matter.  That we are not just animals and there is something eternal that matters for us.

Chapter 5 seems to be about having a healthy attitude toward possessions, money, and government.  The pursuit of material possessions and riches is an empty thing.  The more you have the more you want, unless you learn to have contentment with what you have.  If you have more money, you spend more and so people have a tendancy to run out of money however much they make.  We must learn to stop the spiraling pursuit before it destroys us.  Who sleeps better, the one who engages in hard physical labor but only has enough to live or the rich person, who has all kinds of things they have dreamed of having?  It is often the poor laborer who sleeps better and has more peace.  When you have less you learn contentment better.  The answer to the emptiness of the material pursuit is to appreciate what you have as a gift from God.  Thus, Solomon says “when God gives any man wealth and possessions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work—this is a gift of God. He seldom reflects on the days of his life, because God keeps him occupied with gladness of heart. (Eccl. 5:19) ”  Be content with what you have.  How long did it take Solomon to learn this?  A lifetime apparently.

Ecclesiastes is written to help people ask spiritual questions about what life is all about.

Christianity and Reasons for Faith – by Wayne R. Spencer